Comments on: early 20th century pulp fiction quote and the church

By: ramblings of a wannabe rockstar

ramblings of a wannabe rockstar — Sat, 08 Oct 2005 05:35:42 +0000

Church

I think Tony Compolo originally said it, but the first time I heard the phrase, it’s Friday, but Sunday’s coming was actually in a song by robell and the dutches (featuring none other than Rob Bell on lead vocals). That was such a good…

By: Mike

Mike — Fri, 07 Oct 2005 15:37:32 +0000

I too, picked this up from the Church Marketing Sucks blog and wanted to drop it here…

The fact that YS, and for that matter a lot of other churches and ministries, fall back into practices that they say they don’t want to do is an indication of how thick and sticky our “church culture” or “christian culture” is.

A culture in any context is the product of values and practices being used over and over again–usually with success–without evaluating whether the form is still relevant. There was a time when programs really worked for connecting people to each other and to Jesus. Youth groups grew by sharing “best practices.” We still have these forms people love today and we call them “small groups.” (The value is biblical community the form is small groups).

If you practic these forms over and over and over they produce a culture. One of the hardest things to change is a culture because it is the product of lots of this over a long period of time. So we shouldn’t be surprised when we keep slipping back into it. It’s comfortable, known, and can be very successful and helpful.

Want to change your culture? Make sure your practices reflect your values and then work them for a long time with consistency and care. They will produce a different culture. But guess what? Even then they’ll become familiar, comfortable, and just like the boomer churches we like to slam, we’ll trust in those forms more than we should, and a new generation will come along and slam our practices. Which is fine and right–we’ll need a wake up call.

So for now what YS and others need is not a finger pointing at them but encouragement to excel still more. At least they are identifying the problem.

Mike

By: marko

marko — Thu, 06 Oct 2005 20:23:52 +0000

craig — i’m at a bit of a loss as to how this little post would lead you to “never spend them on anything from youth specialties after this.” all i said was that, while i love the church and even the seeker church movement (i attend one), i think there are some side-effects that weren’t originally intended by the shapers of the seeker movement. the “franchised youth ministries” thing was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek poke at a large youth ministry that does just that (franchises themselves).

By: Craig

Craig — Thu, 06 Oct 2005 19:29:06 +0000

I picked up this article off churchmarketingsucks.com. I was just a little frustrated with this post because it shows the weakness of the BLOG and posting world. I would like to argue the points of this, but its so poorly developed and explained that I would like to see it removed for its lack of integrity. One point, franchised youth ministries, was just a link. I clicked on it and in a few minutes wasn’t able to determine that is was a frachise or just some interesting youth ministry. Thats my two cents, take’em, leave’em, but I would never spend them on anything from youth specialties after this.

By: Church Marketing Sucks

Church Marketing Sucks — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:04:15 +0000

Church Growth Fallout

Mark Oestreicher from Youth Specialties has an interesting post using a Raymond Chandler quote to talk about the state of the church: From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen …

By: brian musser

brian musser — Mon, 03 Oct 2005 03:41:18 +0000

We don’t need to do things to make Jesus more attractive. We don’t need to attract people to Jesus. We need to show Him as He is and let things be as they may.

By: greg m

greg m — Sat, 01 Oct 2005 11:41:16 +0000

hi man good stuff and i am glad you guys are there! peace out see you in pitts!

greg mcklvey

http://www.gregspeaks.blogspot.com

By: Cathy Norton

Cathy Norton — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:24:07 +0000

It’s the CHURCH…people. Wide variety, different styles. I think the people of the church are (in my circle anyway) becoming more transparent and vulnerable. We’re learning to love each other in spite of ourselves. Maybe the church as a whole will follow suit, take off the mask and just be.

You’re involved in leadership (even if not formally) at your church. I’m not. I just go. what ever is there for me is there. It’s your job to analyze and critique. Not mine. It is what it is. I hear lots of criticisms about my church, and.. what’s a person to do? Now, at the same time I say this, our church staff is working on a different kind of service from what at my church has been pretty traditional, and I’m praying like heck that it will be just what I want! I’m sure if it is, there will be lots of others that will find fault with it because they are human, and the church is made up of human beings.

By: sevita

sevita — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:35:08 +0000

just wanted to say that ys is one of the “religous” organizations that has kept my hope alive that the church could be more interested in a person becoming who god already sees her as, rather then a list of do’s in order to succeed at growing a large ministry. as i looked over the seminars this year i was intrigued by the lack of how to “grow” your ministry seminars. they are more about knowing god, knowing self, and knowing others. i think the comparing comes from within the individual people who feel the need to become something rather than knowing they already are something. i know this was true for me back in the day of trying to “do” ministry. i am thankful for you y.s. even though i’m not involved directly with ministry right now. you encourage me to find who i am in christ, not just what i can do for him…

By: Mark

Mark — Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:38:25 +0000

Great metaphor and discussions!
The great majority of our students grow into a culture that will always look for and promote the glam, the pulp, the shiny. Keep pointing people the way of life that is counter-cultural, that is deeper.