Comments on: my grup gripe

By: Kevin I

Kevin I — Tue, 27 Jun 2006 19:37:20 +0000

I’m still cool, so I can’t necassarily comment on my participation in this trend :)

But I think it does say alot about what we define adulthood as. Some of the best adults I know are 15, some of the worst teenagers I know are pushing 60. I think adulthood has a lot more to do about values, drives, responsibility etc. then what you wear, what you listen to or how you talk. You can put a three year old in a suit but you can’t make them own up to his responsibilities..

By: ysmarko

ysmarko — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 15:10:36 +0000

[...] akes, and the reinvention of the american grown-up. i’ve ordered it. connects with my earlier post about grups being a (potentially) positive trend, counter to what others have said. from the websi [...]

By: Tree

Tree — Wed, 31 May 2006 14:41:39 +0000

Interesting. I’m 27, but I easily see myself within this scope. I’m sitting here wearing a Utilikilt (a most excellent anniversary gift) & a Pearl Jam concert tshirt from 1996 with moppy non-styled hair and a scruffy face in need of a decent shave (well, in some areas, not the whole face). But does it mean that I’m immature because I do not believe that how I appear affects how I am able to work? Or, even more important, that being here this way has a more positive effect on my ability to do well in work & life than if I were wearing a “uniform” of sorts? I was always repelled by the idea that one has to look a prescribed way in order to perform well, or that peoples’ reactions to one’s appearance was vitally important in every regard. People argue that things like stokebrokers in mohawks could never work becuase they’d never be trusted (an extreme example?) but I say that’s bs. It’s plain prejudice and judgementalism. Yes, the one with the mohawk may have varying degrees of pure or selfish reasons for haing one, but the person rejecting the broker based on the mohawk may be missing the best damn broker this side of Wall Street. The past answer has been for the broker to bend to the consumer, but that is, I say for the better, rapidly eroding. Like anything and everything for almost all time, there will be upsides and downsides to it all.

By: Andrew Seely

Andrew Seely — Wed, 31 May 2006 11:17:02 +0000

So funny you posted this. I was listening to NPR and they had a story that described what we are calling grups. Over across the pond they are apparently called "chavs", listen to story here

By: bobbie

bobbie — Wed, 31 May 2006 09:45:35 +0000

i read this article with interest too marko and you put your finger on the misgivings i had also. minus the materialism i would consider liam and i grups – and it comes from a place of intentional choice – not immaturity or laziness.

By: Pastor Paul

Pastor Paul — Wed, 31 May 2006 00:33:49 +0000

I’m a 36 year old who wears jeans (or jean shorts) to work almost every day. Here are my thoughts.
1) Being more interested in “work[ing] a job that provides meaning and significance from contribution (even if it means less pay or ’status’ in the way that used to be quantified), rather than working a job that provides high pay or prestige or power over others, but robs the soul” is great if you’re willing to take the cut in pay. My problem is hearing about these people who also want the pay that comes with those who are climbing the corporate ladder.
2) T-shirt and jeans are comfortable, but are they always appropriate. I’m more concerned about the why than the what. I used to do the same thing, but for this reason – I certainly wasn’t going to allow any “adult” (anybody over 30 at the time) to tell me how to dress. So, are the 30 and 40-somethings wearing those things to make a statement, or to try and tell the world that they’re not really old, or simply because they really like to wear that kind of clothing? If the latter, then I agree – who cares. Let ‘em wear what they want. If the former two, then I, too, would question their maturity. On the other hand, why in the world do we have “dress clothes” at all. Why were they invented?
3) So let’s look at the positives (I’m an odd Gen-Xer – I like tradition and the values of my parents and grandparents) – why did the former generation choose the “norms” they did? Why did they believe that one should dress “nice” (whatever that looked like to them and now to us)? What were the positives of adulthood as it was defined a generation ago, and what should we keep for adults of today that may be thrown out with the bath water?
4) Why is behavior (whether it’s clothes, what kind of music they listen to, etc.) not a good gauge of maturity? Isn’t behavior just “fruit?” I agree, I don’t want to raise up pharisees – and maybe that’s my struggle vs. somebody struggling to make sure we don’t raise up students who continue to sin so that grace may abound – but that doesn’t mean that I don’t call students to a behavior that models Christ’s, or Christ’s call.
Hmmm… I’m being a little contrary today. At 36, don’t do four hours of sleep well anymore. Still, I think they’re good questions to consider.

By: Mike

Mike — Tue, 30 May 2006 22:13:04 +0000

But where’s the tipping point between stereotypes (stuffy, work-obsessed adult vs. carefree, irresponsible adolescent)? Often in youth ministry we hear about ‘bridging the generation gap’, but I wonder with Marko, what if the gap was filled?

After college, 12 years of marriage, 3 kids under 6 and in jeans and a henley, my life doesn’t look like what I thought adulthood would be. Nor does it look a whole lot like it did in high school (even if my outdated clothes do!). Maybe I’m an uncool grup. Maybe I just value students more that the trapppings of successful adulthood.

Here’s to erasing the generation gap… one clip on tie at a time!

By: Clint Walker

Clint Walker — Tue, 30 May 2006 20:34:50 +0000

I dont know….i guess I just try to be the me that God created me to be and not worry about all the other stuff.

I read a book several years back that made the point better than much of these folks do. It was called SIBLING SOCIETY by robert bly.

I think you are right that it is, from what I read overly focused on the externals. But, as Bly points out, I think our youth are missing a lot when we have a society that in unwelcome to elders and where many 40 and 50 somethings are obcessed with being and acting younger than they are.

And, at least in my neck of the woods, there are a lot of youth and children that would be aided by parents that did not try and extend adolescence well into their adult years.

By: marko

marko — Tue, 30 May 2006 19:03:56 +0000

i’m with you, mdaele — makes sense (and i agree).

By: mdaele

mdaele — Tue, 30 May 2006 18:55:51 +0000

perhaps something is getting tangled in the semantics…
When i ask kids in my youth group if they want to become adults – most of them say no. But you are right they do aspire toward some of the aspects/trappings of adulthood (marriage (or secure partnership), career, etc.,) I also think that it is somewhat infantile for Mohler to suggest that adulthood is being rejected solely based on behaviouristic tendencies that arbitrarily are showing up in culture.
However, my point runs something like this: I think kids imagine adulthood in radically different ways than what previous generations imagined it to be. The way teens will answer those three critical questions will be categorically different than they used to be answered (i don’t know – do you agree?). Against that we have been working with these processes of spiritual maturity that are based on the old paradigms of adulthood. And on top of that the established evangelical church has focused almost entirely on behaviouristic markers of spiritual maturity. The things we typically use to describe ‘discipled’ kids, for me, often feel more like we are trying to make kids conform to a spiritualized form of antiquated adulthood. As a result there is little wonder that people like Mohler freak out over the trappings and behaviours. Personally I think it leads to the edge of propigating a form of spirituality that connects in almost no way with the reality of what kids are growing up into.
I’m probably out to lunch…