Comments on: questions about abusing youth workers

By: ysmarko

ysmarko — Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:13:01 +0000

[...] i’m not saying youth pastors bear no responsibility. i’ve said this before, that we need to own up to our collective immaturity and the role it plays in all of this crud. [...]

By: Tracy Crewson

Tracy Crewson — Tue, 16 May 2006 17:00:23 +0000

Yesterday marked one year since my husband and I were forced out of full-time youth ministry. It has been a painful and devastating journey. I used to think that those “idiots” at YS conventions who got fired for loving Jesus too much just mistakingly picked the wrong denomination to be part of….until it happened to us (and have repented of that judgemental spirit!). How were we to explain to our children that we were forced out of our church for trying to do what the Bible was telling us to do, love and disciple students? How were we to explain that standing up for Truth might cost you more than you ever dreamed, especially when you thought you were in a place that actually believed Truth?
After 12 full-time years of Youth Min. at 2 churches, we are the more mature , respectful, professional youth workers. While we did not do everything right, we did our best to humbly remain under the authority of our Sr. Pastor and still do what it was that the Bible commanded us to do. I cannot prove the heart of our Pastor, but how can you function under one seemingly full of jealousy, pride and the need to be in control? Do you think that abuse comes from hearts that are not in the right place?
I truly believe that the abuse of youth pastors grows out of 2 roots: Sr. Pastors and board members(church staff etc.) not being true God-lovers first and foremost (our Pastor admitted to my hubby that he doesn’t even have a personal devotional time). Secondly, not loving Truth more than anything else (including the best laid out programs in the world!). If Sr. Pastors and youth pastors do not love God first and foremost with all their hearts, souls, minds and strength, then our love and intentions will be misguided. If we do not love Truth more than anything else then we will turn a blind eye to sin and “peace-keep” instead of “peace-make”. If we ignore these 2 things, then we turn our churches into nothing more than corporate organizations who run through the power of programs, and not the Holy Spirit. Our first responsibility is to know God’s Word and love Him; my ministry should overflow out of my love for God once I have been filled to the top with Him. When it’s all about Him, it won’t be about clothes and rules, nor games and programs only for the sake of amusement.
In essence, its solution is revival in the hearts of men! Not just believing God, but depending on Him. Easier said than done…
I don’t believe that God will waste our hurt-I have to believe that. I also believe that God allowed this to take us to brokenness…to deeper relationship with Him (and each other), and so that we will remember the pain and not do the same to someone else. There is so much more I have learned…but I’ll spare you my rambling. When God takes any of His broken vessels back into ministry (including us?), our gifts will be resurrected for His glory and not our own.
(If you, like us, have been wounded more than you could have ever imagined, search the web and check out a ministry run by Campus Crusade for Christ called “Oasis”. It is more than worth the time and money…I don’t know where we’d be without it.)

By: Greg

Greg — Tue, 16 May 2006 03:49:49 +0000

Guess what guys life’s not fair, Gods not fair, and I thank Him for it everyday. 98% of the people running businesses in the real world have never had a conflict resolution class in there lives and they fire people everyday for any reason that crosses there minds. The people thy fire are forced to sign statements and have no idea how they will pay the rent next week. Do you think that God should never allow such hurt in your lives simply because you work in a church? Remember Romans 8 and commit yourselves to forgiveness and submission to the hand of GOD. I love you guys and all you do for young people but don’t forget who is really in charge.

By: JaWS

JaWS — Sun, 14 May 2006 00:04:32 +0000

Marko-
You raise some really interesting questions, especially since I was forced into resignation this past Monday. (And, by the way, thanks to you and all the YS folks for the job bank board and resume posting. It is helping me as I sort through some of this stuff. And I am sure it costs you all a fair amount of time and money…)

As people have said, every story has two sides and here is my side of my story. I was hired 4 years ago by a certain committee of people. Those folks have now left the committee that is in charge of staff at our church. Additionally, we recieved a new pastor last June and to say he and I didn’t mesh well would be a big understatement. And the current folks in charge of staff took the “Senior pastor is law” approach to governing the staff.

There is no way to resolve conflict in that environment. Especially when the senior pastor isn’t particularly caring or invested in the staff or the church.

And there are definitely things I am bad at. Obstensibly, I was let go because I don’t relate to non-youth related adults, ie I don’t do a good job hand holding senior citizens. Which is entirely true. But I built a great team of volunteers, grew a meaningful youth ministry and related well to parents. All gone.

Someone once shared with me that all senior pastors ought to have some kind of management training and I completely agree.

By: markeades

markeades — Sat, 13 May 2006 04:34:58 +0000

ella thanks for your post and I agree totally. There is a time and a season (hmmm… doesn’t the Bible say something about that). battles are terrible things (I’ve been a part of many including the first gulf war) and no matter what people are hurt from them. but for those who are not a part of the battle we can play a major role of the recovering and helping those in them. I mean this for the YP and the SP and the church and who ever else. I think that is part of loving others. a listening ear and a heart of care if a wonderful thing to fall back on.

what if we had just a place for hurting people to go to that know they can be safe to share and heal. is there such a place and can it really be totally safe?

By: marko

marko — Sat, 13 May 2006 04:21:22 +0000

very nicely said, ella

By: ella

ella — Sat, 13 May 2006 03:29:26 +0000

i guess i’ve been learning (again) lately that no story is the whole story, that no person holds the whole truth about a situation.

i’ve found that there are some battles not worth fighting, and that if i give them up before i’ve started fighting them, the battles that really are worth fighting seem to be resolved much more easily. that means sometimes i wear grown up clothes, when i normally wouldn’t. it means that sometimes i bite my tongue when i really, really want to respond. it means that sometimes, when someone pushes me for my opinion on an issue, that i choose not to respond even when i know i’m right and could prove it in an instant.

it doesn’t mean giving ground, it means i know i’m sharing ground.

wish i’d learnt all of that earlier.

By: brian

brian — Sat, 13 May 2006 01:35:54 +0000

yeah Marko Cincinnati Bible College offers a degree in preaching

By: paul

paul — Fri, 12 May 2006 20:50:02 +0000

that was a helpful post riddle… gives a lot of reasons as to the “why” of conflict.

i know in my youth ministry i’ve been lucky. when applying for a job, i was very upfront in questioning the staff (most of the staff too, not just 1 pastor) about conflict management. They all gave similar answers (and so now i hold them too that).

The other thing that is helpful is (and i’m lucky here) that one of my best friends is the senior pastor (we are about 10 years in age difference). We are totally upfront with each other, which helps build good relationship and respect for each other. I also take time to spend with the elders (lunches, phone conversations, etc…). This helps in us having a more open relationship.

it makes me wonder though, why do youth pastors seem to have a distant relationship with their SP & elders so often? Does this contribute to the problem? maybe not seeking out a relationship is one way we contribute to the problem…

By: riddle

riddle — Fri, 12 May 2006 20:18:58 +0000

thanks for this topic marko.
It seems that the church is something of the point at which the perfect storm is created. Where several storms unto themselves collide. It can’t be reduced to one or two things,and generalizations with simplistic answers only feed the unstable atmosphere. (how’s that for working an metaphor over)

Some storms:
1.) Studies show that vocationally, pastors are per capita, more likely to function from need, or go into ministry to meet a personal need they have. Some might dismiss this, but don’t be too quick to.

2. People come to the church with different assumptions about every aspect of why the church exists. Pastors, students, parents, congregation folks, etc all come with different assumptions about why we do what we do. These assumptions feed expectations.

3. We’ve lost track of the role of pastor (as it’s been understood historically) and replaced it with the role of leader (21st century understanding of leadership)

4. We’ve let a american (individualistic, therapeutic, technological, militeristic) worldview inform our understanding of christianity.

5. We don’t like conflict. (who does)

6. We like conflict. (yep, some of us do)

7. We don’t think systemically. We don’t understand how what we do informs our community and their expecations.

8. Youth Pastor – has become a professionally legitimate vocation. This has impacted the church tremendously. We have failed to recognize the consequences of actually having a youth ministry.

9. We measure the wrong things. We as youth pastors feed off the wrong encouragement.

10. Senior Pastors have too many expectations place upon them and they can not live up to them.

11. Ditto for Youth Pastors.

Ok. that’s all for now… I have to pic up my 8yr old at school. Sorry if this is a bit disjointed I have a 1 year old who’s teething in my lap. maybe more later…