Comments on: number obsession

By: Dave

Dave — Fri, 04 May 2007 14:50:43 +0000

Great article and I applaud you. When we reduce them to numbers we take the relationship out of it. We can become so enamored with the big event with the big attendance when the reality is that most of the time real ministry happens one on one because of the relationship that has been formed. There are exceptions, but I sure do love the one on one.

By: Rick

Rick — Tue, 01 May 2007 17:02:29 +0000

We had 56 Students, 10 Leaders & 9 Student Mentors at our last meeting.

By: Michelle

Michelle — Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:29:00 +0000

Paul – I think I stated very clearly in my posts that I am passionate about both reaching teenagers (converts) and discipling them. Here are 3 examples:

“The more teenagers I get to share the gospel with and disciple the more passionate I get about reaching more of them. I am a very driven person and I believe that I should never stop growing the youth ministry here. If growth stops, I evaluate and make changes. And when I say growth I do mean both numerically and spiritually. The thing is, I belive that you can have numerical growth and spiritaul growth – I guess I believe it because we are experiencing it here.”

“We keep the large funnel open but we are also very passionate about getting them involved in Bible studies and one on one leadership and discipleship training. Balance is the key”

“We have small groups that meet together for Bible study every week. We have leadership teams that get together and grow not only spiritually but in leadership so that they can then go out into theor world and bring the gospel to it. You can’t just have large events without the small group experience”

By: Paul Cross

Paul Cross — Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:59:56 +0000

Hey there folks….

Like Ali, I’m looking at this from a UK perspective, which numerically is where the usa is heading in church attendance etc. I truely praise God for Michelle finding what God is doing in her community and joining in. My only slight concern, and I am sure this is in the difference is speaking english vs american, is I wasn’t sure if she is creating converts or disciples.

Now, here in deepest darkest rural england, getting any volenteers to do youth work is difficult to say the least. I am sure it is a common call but with the current regulations we can only appoint people after legal checks and lots of folks don’t want to do that. Therefore, I am set with a dilema. I want to see numerical growth cos we are to grow the kingdom but if I do I don’t have the mature Christians to disciple these raw newbies. So I look at the numbers similar to Phil to keep an eye on those who slide to the edge, as well as to keep legal.

We are very fortunate. Having just completed 2 years in post we have a growing number of young disciples, many who have or are plannig to year out serving God. We have had a number of church family youth come to faith and 2 non church family.

However, like Phil I feel the pressure. I mean, to have an Acts experience would be great. Errrr, no! As a church we are not ready. We couldn’t disciple if 30 suddenly came to faith, let alone 300 or 3000.

So, Marko, keep the debate going. We all need to loose our number measurement obsession. Perhaps what we need to debate is how we can measure effective youth ministry in a way our employers can recieve without them wanting fresh bums on seats.

Finally, I’d like to say Marko is a well sorted bloke who, like so many of those who visit us here in Blighty, sacrifice to come and help us.

Blessya

By: Gregg

Gregg — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:29:51 +0000

Michelle, I want to know what you are doing that brings them in. THIS IS NOT A JOKE OR SLAM, I REALLY WANT TO KNOW YOUR STRAGITY! Email me and I’ll give you my number so we can talk – 220@allisonparkchurch.com. I’m always looking for new ideas that work. We are not looking to build a youth ministry, we want to build a movment of students that kick satan in the (stopped saying those words 20 years ago). I’m sick of what he’s doing to this generation just like the rest of the people who’s posted here. There’s 67,000 students in my area. I want to reach them. Send me your ideas – Gregg

By: Wick

Wick — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:14:44 +0000

So yeah…I think the fact that this huge back and forth has happened in regards to a great blog/reminder by Marko…testifies to the fact that maybe we spend too much time thinking/defending our positions on numbers. Loving teens to Jesus is a lot more simple/complicated than this. :) My daughter just learned how to stand up….I’m so freakin’ excited.

By: Ali Campbell

Ali Campbell — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 10:33:43 +0000

As I said, Luke loves his stats – they are stated as “fact” what Marko is making reference to is the tendancy in us to compare our effectiveness with one another based on HOW MANY we have – that is not right . . . and, because many youth workers (if you don’t know them, I do) do this, I think it is helpful having that pointed out . . . all the other scripture references are about what God is going to do – the emphasis is on His work, His power, His Kingdom . . . and the numbers aren’t all in Abrahams community (they are all over the world) and there are more who are part of the Church NOW than there have ever been in History – we should be delighting in the fact we get to live now, have a global picture (unlike generations before us), and recognise that the “numbers” that God sees are ALL OF US – not your church or my church.

By: Jerermy

Jerermy — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:00:50 +0000

Acts 9:31
Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace. It was strengthened; and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it grew in numbers, living in the fear of the Lord.

Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch

Acts 16:5
So the churches were strengthened in the faith and grew daily in numbers.

Acts 2:41
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Acts 4:4
But many who heard the message believed, and the number of men grew to about five thousand.

Genesis 17:2
I will confirm my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers.”

Genesis 28:3
May God Almighty bless you and make you fruitful and increase your numbers until you become a community of peoples.

Genesis 35:11
And God said to him, “I am God Almighty ; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will come from your body.”

Deuteronomy 1:10
The LORD your God has increased your numbers so that today you are as many as the stars in the sky.

Deuteronomy 1:11
May the LORD, the God of your fathers, increase you a thousand times and bless you as he has promised!

The Parables of the Mustard Seed and the Yeast
He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. Though it is the smallest of all your seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and perch in its branches.” MATTHEW 16:31-32

i guess i’m w/ michelle on this one.

By: Cory

Cory — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:26:21 +0000

Marko, thanks so much for the post. I think I caught the heart of your message and it challenged me to evaluate my thinking, priorities, etc.
Thanks!

By: marko

marko — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:57:22 +0000

michelle, you ask:
come on, do you really believe that this blog was both positive and negative?
this is just a misunderstanding of terms. a blog is the whole thing. a post is an individual web article, on a blog. so, no, i never thought (or said) that each post is both positive and negative. the blog overall, that’s what i was referring to.