That said, I’ll state my point anyway.
Marko, you want to worship God more purely by understanding exactly who and what God is. That’s good. But the gender issue is not the point (and I think you know this). When Jesus refers to God as the “Father,” he’s not talking about gender (at least I don’t think so), he’s talking about character. Is God calling himself a hen? No. He’s referring to character.

What would the perfect Father be like? That’s the concept Jesus is getting at. What does a mother hen do for her chicks? That’s what God is getting at.

I believe the general use of male terms for God has more to do with authority and power than it does with gender. God is helping us understand him. We are stupid specks, with a limited language to express concepts.

Getting hung up on gender is only hurting the journey. Let’s try to understand the character of the comparisons, not the gender.

Thanks for the comment and food for thought. I do come back to this post every once and awhile since I find the discussions here quite fascinating.

First I think I should clarify that I definitely don’t think everyone who is disagreeing with Marko (or with anyone else for that matter) is throwing a hissy fit. Debate and discussions are great and can lead to growth and discovery. So my point was not at all to condemn the discussion.

Also, I understand that there are certain truths or beliefs which are fundamental to the Christian faith. But Marko wasn’t actually challenging any such truth? If he had been I could understand the rage in some of the comments on here. If I understood correctly he was simply speaking about his own journey where he is searching for more inclusive and less limiting ways to view God. And for that people would actually boycott seminars that have any sort of affiliation to Marko. That is very puzzling to me.

Marko definitely loves and knows God. I don’t think any of us are challenging that and I hope you will keep looking at his blogs and taking note of his faith. More importantly I think all of us (including Marko) would hope you’d read The Bible as well. You might start in the gospel of John or Romans (a little tougher perhaps but worth reading).

You mentioned a double standard that many (perhaps even all) Christians have. I think a better way to put it is Tension. The one true God and the faith we have in God presents some fun and sometimes difficult tensions to deal with. For example, I am called to live perfectly but I know that I can’t and yet the Bible tells me that in Christ I am made perfect and yet I still sin. Can you see the tension? It’s also from this that Christian’s are often seen as hypocrites – that we claim to be perfect but clearly aren’t. I don’t think any one of us responding to this blog would claim to be perfect.

The tension that you mentioned from this particular discussion is that all of us are claiming humility and that we don’t know it all but then we seem to be saying we know the answer…what you’re seeing are two tensions…
1) we don’t have all the answers and we as people make mistakes but The Bible does not make mistakes because it is God’s word and it has all the answers that we need. Because of this we can claim humility and yet point to God’s word with confidence and make a bold claim of truth.
2) we have a mysterious and transcendent God that is greater than we can imagine but God is also relational and has made Himself known through the Bible and actually coming to earth as Jesus Christ to restore our broken relationship. So we have to admit that we do not know everything about the infinite God who exists but that is not to say that we cannot know and understand God because God has chosen to make Himself known to us

In other words, while we continue to learn the extent of God’s character and therefore can say that we do not completely know God because He is infinite. We can also very accurately say that we know God’s character because He describes it to us in the Bible. Again, there is a tension. That doesn’t make either part wrong it simply means we must remember both parts…God is infinite and His ways are beyond ours but God is also relational and He has described and explained who He is and how He relates to us.

One last thing, you mentioned a tendency to take our business elsewhere if we don’t get our way, at least on the part of some. I don’t mean to condemn or condone any of the responses, only to explain. Because we take God and the Bible seriously there are some things that we believe that we must not change them…Jesus is God…We cannot earn our way to heaven, faith in Jesus is the only way to heaven, etc…these are not our opinion, they are statements from God in the Bible and they are essentials that we live by. You sometimes see us disagree on what the essentials are, though, and this seems to be the case here. It’s not that some are throwing a hissy fit, it’s that some see this issue as an essential and others perhaps don’t.

I hope our discussion does not distract you from what’s is crucial…(as I mentioned before, read John or Romans and you’ll find this)
God made humanity to know and glorify Him.
But our sin has kept us from doing this and made us guilty before a holy and just God.
Because of His holiness and justice and because of our sin a penalty of death was handed down.
Because of His love, grace and mercy, Jesus came to pay that price of death
Any who put their trust in Jesus are saved by Him, He restores our relationship that we might know Him and honor Him.

Again, I encourage you to read John and/or Romans and I hope you will come to know the amazing God who exists.

Just a quick note…

In English, we read John 14:16 with the pronoun ‘he’. But in Greek, the word used (pneuma) is not a male word. It’s a neuter word. By tradition, in the English language, we use ‘he’ in those type of translation issues. But, I think english grammar is a poor place to get theology from. If you want to get theology from grammar, at least do it in the original language. If Jesus had spoken those words in Hebrew (and maybe he did and its just written in Greek, who knows) he would have used the Hebrew word for Spirit which is feminine.

Also, I really want you to hear that point that no one is denying the beauty of God as Father. That is a good metaphor. And it is a metahpor, we all know God is not a human man who has fathered biological children. I think the point is : let’s take the Bible MORE seriously and look at all the metaphors God uses for himself, including the female ones.

Let’s start with the Spirit. Before this blog I never once attributed a female connotation to the Spirit. In John 14 Jesus himself says, “And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever – the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept HIM (emphasis mine), because it neither sees HIM nor knows HIM. But you know HIM, for HE lives with you and will be in you.” I will admit I have not studied Greek or Hebrew, but I am clear in my understanding of he/him in these verses. These are Jesus’ words.

Second, why is it so unbelievable that God as Father can be loving, compassionate, merciful, affectionate, nurturing, etc…. In the story of the prodigal son Jesus states that while the son was still a long way off, the father saw him and was filled with compassion for him and ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him. Are we so removed in our society and culture that the only characteristics we associate with any type of father is one of dictator, bully, body guard, and disciplinarian? God the Father is strong, creative, defender, and disciplinarian, but He is also loving (so much so He sent His son to die for the ungodly). He is compassionate, merciful, nurturing, and affectionate. He made garments for Adam and Eve after the fall. Are you going to say that God must be a female then because men can’t sew! That’s sexist – stereotyping! Are you saying men can’t cook either? Jesus himself was cooking fish (breakfast) for his disciples on the side of the shore after his resurrection. Your description and images of “father” are skewed by culture, media, and personal experiences.

Jesus had no problem referring to God as Father – specifically. Several times referring to Him as Abba (Daddy). When people want to refer to verses in scripture which describe God as a mother hen or a woman in labor you are really misinterpreting the point. Those phrases are similes. The definition of a simile is “a figure of speech that expresses a resemblance between things of different kinds – usually using ‘like’ or ‘as’.” Every single one of those verses that were referenced earlier begins with the word “as”. That is a simile. It is a comparison to the original – not the real thing. Jesus repeatedly referred to God as “Father”. Why do we want to change that image? I understand people have had horrible experiences with earthly fathers, but come on – what better image then to compare that God our heavenly Father is NOTHING like that! Someone very close to me was raised by an abusive, apathetic, non-loving earthly father. In fact, the person will only refer to him as his “B.F.” – biological father. I don’t have time to tell you the things he suffered because and from this man. But he has NO problem whatsoever in seeing God as his Father. God is the Father he never had. He is the complete opposite of his B.F. It brings him comfort to know that God the Father is all of the things his earthy father was not. And now that he is a father himself, he strives to be like God the Father and not his BF. Though he admits his BF was a great teacher because he taught him that he did not want to be like him. I do not think that is a valid argument or excuse for people refusing to address God in the masculine form. It’s an excuse. Period.

I know this is a long post – and I don’t apologize. In our “me” society and make “me” feel good culture it requires more than a few sentences.

Amen. I think it also tells us that women need to do a good job of representing God as mother. But really, this isnt about the faliure of men (or women) its about representing God to more accurately represent reality.