Comments on: nice ym3.0 reviews keep pouring in

By: chad m

chad m — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:33:08 +0000

i also read your book over the last week and posted some questions on my blog…i wonder, what if the Sacrament of Communion is the best way to be communional? honestly, doesn’t the Sacrament communicate all we want to, need to, say about Christ? that is, if we take the time to teach what communion is about and take the time to walk with students to prepare them to receive the sacrament. just a thought!

my big question: doesn’t creating “affinity groups” just shift programming to smaller programs that further divide the church? also, isn’t the church the one place where the only commonality that needs to exist is unity in Christ?

By: justin hanneken

justin hanneken — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 03:49:38 +0000

I don’t have time to read it. I can’t stand reading, and my Sr. Pastor gives me books to read that take me FOREVER! The last book I wanted to read was Yaconelli’s “getting fired for the glory of God” and so I bought it and there it sits. Here’s the point, I loved hearing you on the Source for YM podcast. I feel like I learned a TON about what you are saying in the book and didn’t have to read it to find out. Thanks for doing that podcast and I really have already incorporated some of the things I learned from the podcast. Peace.

By: Sue Van Stelle

Sue Van Stelle — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:52:23 +0000

I appreciate much of what dj has to say, but one assumption that I see in this response and that I’ve seen through events marketed across my desk really trouble me.

I get things across my desk saying something to the effect of, “It’s time to stop *doing* church and start *being* the church,” and the program is to close the doors of the sanctuary one Sunday morning so that everyone can go out and serve. dj mentions the “mask” of corporate worship.

I believe corporate worship can be the most “real” thing we do all week long. Unfortunately, so often corporate worship has been co-opted and commodified to the point where its theological foundations are largely undermined.

My intuitive suspicion is that if we can recover a healthy theology of corporate worship, we will recover a healthy youth ministry as well. Commodified worship and programmatic youth ministry are two symptoms of the same problem, imho.

By: angus

angus — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:51:06 +0000

As I’ve wrestled with all this since my comment posting, I’ve decided to evaluate the ministry I serve, and I think we are at “YM 2.5″. When I got here 4 1/2 years ago, it was probably 1.5…

Ultimately, I do resonate with all that’s been said about this 3.0 business. I too am grateful that Marko has put into words what my heart has been sensing for some time. I am also grateful that my “fears” have been exposed to all (that I wrote about above), and I prayerfully move forward as YM continues this shift…

By: Nick

Nick — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:11:10 +0000

This idea of cutting programs and not spending as much on big lights and Christian celebrities reminds me of the Advent Conspiracy’s 4 main “tenants”: worship fully, spend less, give more, love all. I know Advent Conspiracy is centering on reclaiming the meaning of Christmas, but I can’t help but wonder if the “conspiracy” can apply to our American culture in general, and even youth ministry. :)

I’ve been guilty of having a kid stop by early for youth group while I’m in the middle of setting up all the techno mumbo jumbo and then being so bold as to use that as an excuse as to not “deal” with him. God forgive me.

By: marko

marko — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:04:40 +0000

angus — that is a TOTALLY legit fear and potential reality. we need to be aware of that fear, honest about it, and consider what god is saying to us.

By: angus

angus — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:38 +0000

I haven’t read the book so I can’t really comment on it per se, but from all the reviews I’ve read, I can certainly relate to much of what Marko has been “sensing” about where YM is headed…

But I think this reviewer is on to something that I’m not sure that has been mentioned, something that may hinder the transition into YM 3.0…

…the fear of “losing our jobs”…

I will admit, that is a fear of mine. I know, I know, “God will provide, have a place for you”, etc. I do believe and trust in that. However, in my weakness, I confess that there are times that I also sense the need for paradigm shifts similar to what Marko sees (going from more to less, focus on community, less on programming, not seeking to get “bigger”, being mostly service-oriented, etc.) and don’t do more to “go there” because, well, I am afraid that people at our church will question the need for me… They just want to see “all the stuff Ben is doing with/for the kids”, and less-is-more (despite some inroads I’ve made in that direction already, before 3.0 came out) just makes me wonder if the powers that be will wonder if it’s worth keeping me around…

I guess I need a dose of Yac’s “Getting Fired for the Glory of God” hahaha.

But, is anyone else having the same fear I have at times? Or am I just a dorky, scared, unfaithful soul? :-) (probably all of the above hahaha)

By: Dj

Dj — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:44:55 +0000

Hey thanks for the post! Makes me feel special! :)